Holding More Steering Angle

Discussion for anything counter-steer RC drifting!
JyuRoku
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Holding More Steering Angle

Postby JyuRoku » Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:50 am

Whats up guys. So at the local tracks here in Tokyo i have noticed almost everyone is holding lots of steering angle in the turns but even with 1.85CS in my Street Jam R31D it seems like i can steer in and just give minor flicks of counter-steer. If i try to hold a little bit of counter it will just straighten out. Is there some way to reduce the amount of front grip so i can counter steer more in the turns??

I'm drifting on carpet with very hard plastic tires...same as everyone else at the track. I just want the look of holding opposite lock through turns instead of just tap-tap-tap...

Slideway
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Re: Holding More Steering Angle

Postby Slideway » Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:03 am

Dude, where do you drift at up in Tokyo? I'm down in Atsugi and can't find any tracks around here.
"It ain't the right way unless it's SIDEWAYS!"

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Re: Holding More Steering Angle

Postby DWright » Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:32 am

Try harder springs, heavier oil, more shock angle, more camber, a little of toe-in at full lock (I believe that is negative akkerman).

JyuRoku
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Re: Holding More Steering Angle

Postby JyuRoku » Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:32 am

Slideway wrote:Dude, where do you drift at up in Tokyo? I'm down in Atsugi and can't find any tracks around here.


I go to a track in Mizuho called Chance Circuit, and a place in Iruma called Noah Circuit. Both are too far of a drive for you tho...I would grab a japanese friend and go to a book store. Grab any RC magazine and there will be a section listing tracks. Different mags list different tracks/shops so check a few different ones.

JyuRoku
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Re: Holding More Steering Angle

Postby JyuRoku » Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:35 am

DWright wrote:Try harder springs, heavier oil, more shock angle, more camber, a little of toe-in at full lock (I believe that is negative akkerman).


All of the above, your talking about making the adjustments to the front correct?

I'm using the WORKS shock set, and springs are the same front and rear. I already have -9 camber and slight toe-in. Ill try the shock angle first, and add some more pre-load until i can find some harder springs.

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Re: Holding More Steering Angle

Postby AwDamn » Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:19 am

I'm a noob but.....

It would seem that if you are getting too much pull in the front, you may want to try to stiffen up the front. Softer springs will give you more grip. Or soften up the rear so they grip better to get those hips swinging back and fourth. Everyone has their own driving style, but you may also want to try a 0 toe in front.

Just a thought. I was having some similar challenges with my car and these tips helped me.

Good luck.
All I have are a bunch of parts.......


.......and they aren't even the good ones.

FunkRenegade
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Re: Holding More Steering Angle

Postby FunkRenegade » Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:36 pm

Dude, you have access to chance circuit.. You should be lucky enough to get some first hand tips from the locals there. Those guys have some insane skills.

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Re: Holding More Steering Angle

Postby RE-Xtreme » Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:17 pm

Talk to Sobaya-san at Chance.

You will find he runs lots of pro squat on the rear. check what rear toe blocks he runs and the way he aligns the chassis.
Usually Zero rear toe and 3mm or pro squat spacers.
You may find they run some weights on the body also.

Soon you'll be running with them.

Russ
Visit me for more info on http://rextremerc.blogspot.com/

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Re: Holding More Steering Angle

Postby FunkRenegade » Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:47 pm

I think you mean anti squat. 3mm pro squat on an already rear heavy ta06 wouldn't be so good for handling.. Pro squat would make the rear end dump hard on throttle.
http://ameblo.jp/osobaya/theme-10030132195.html

RE-Xtreme wrote:Talk to Sobaya-san at Chance.

You will find he runs lots of pro squat on the rear. check what rear toe blocks he runs and the way he aligns the chassis.
Usually Zero rear toe and 3mm or pro squat spacers.
You may find they run some weights on the body also.

Soon you'll be running with them.

Russ

JyuRoku
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Re: Holding More Steering Angle

Postby JyuRoku » Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:25 pm

Well I'm pretty sure there are more than just one chance circuit. It seems to be a franchise. The one I go to is on the second floor of a grocery store. Ill probably not o there too often since I found Noah Speedway...elevation changes, different routes, and scenery. Makes the whole thing twice as fun.

Most guys are running Yokomo DRB's so in thinking their chassis setups might not apply to my street jam.

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Re: Holding More Steering Angle

Postby Slideway » Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:56 am

JyuRoku, have you gone to Waru Circuit in Yokohama? I've been there once and was required to run THEIR tires. They let me borrow a set of 4 and let me tell ya, it is like drifting on ice =D. I was using my DRB at the time and was able to hold high drifting angles throughout their carpet track.
"It ain't the right way unless it's SIDEWAYS!"

JyuRoku
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Re: Holding More Steering Angle

Postby JyuRoku » Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:07 am

I drove a guys car that had the same amount of CS (1.8) as mine yet his felt insanely different. He fiddled with my settings and ended up making it a little better but still the rear just has too much grip. We think the fix will be getting rid of the rear toe-in and zero'ing it out. The OTA-R31 comes stock with toe-in so i'll have to buy the little piece that corrects that. He set my camber to -3 front and rear, then set the front to a slight toe-out or maybe zero, hard to tell. Its a little better but he said the toe-in in the rear is whats killing it.

I think the tires are bad as well. Mine are the stock Street Jam tires while everyone else is using completely flat, super hard, thin tires.
Image

I need these.
Image

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Re: Holding More Steering Angle

Postby Automatix » Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:01 am

JyuRoku wrote:Well I'm pretty sure there are more than just one chance circuit. It seems to be a franchise. The one I go to is on the second floor of a grocery store. Ill probably not o there too often since I found Noah Speedway...elevation changes, different routes, and scenery. Makes the whole thing twice as fun.

Most guys are running Yokomo DRB's so in thinking their chassis setups might not apply to my street jam.


You'll find Sobaya-san with good luck in this place. Met him there in December and did some insane trains *-|

All the guys over there run RC926 carpet tires, 04 or 05 hardness. Unfortunatly they are sold out most time on the tracks, if you have a chance to visit super-rc you have a better chance to find them.
TamTam in Saitama had also some on stock.

Be carefull - if you reduce the rear toe-in you will loose speed and can't catch the train :lol:
In my opinion I'd work on the front setting.

btw: chance circuit also changes the layout - I've been there when Sobaya created a new track ;)

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Re: Holding More Steering Angle

Postby JyuRoku » Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:15 am

Today i set the car to -6 front camber, -3 rear, slight toe out, rear dampers at 5th top hole and middle bottom hole. and ran the rear springs to zero preload and fronts to about a 1/4" or so. Also added some weight (my lug nut tool) to the front bumper and its awesome. I would like the rear to be a little more loose so I might get the -2' or -1' camber block for the rear or try a little more weight on the bumper. Also found i need a faster steering servo. Mines slow as piss and unless i perfectly time my counter-steer a few milliseconds early...it will just do a 360 in transitions. But its to the point where im always holding a little bit of counter to keep it steady vs straight with little taps for correction(how it was last week). Definitely harder to do but looks a lot more realistic and i'm loving the challenge. :D :D :D

Image
Picked up a Yokomo 460-Power S14 shell as well.

I tried 3 different sets of tires and found that one of my other sets that I normally don't use felt just like the ones the guy that works there let me try...so I use them now.

This is slightly off topic but...other than the bling, whats the advantage of getting the carbon style chassis conversion?? The all alum yoko's feel heavy as sh** compared to my 90% plastic chassis.

mobills
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Re: Holding More Steering Angle

Postby mobills » Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:54 pm

Well theres flexing and weight that comes with upgraded chassis. sometimes depending on which chassis you have you can try different thickness in carbon or graphite

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Re: Holding More Steering Angle

Postby apique_14 » Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:36 pm

Hi...i'm still noob and still getting the right tempo of controlling my throttle. So far as I try, apart from setting I believe the way controlling throttle and steering also play apart to hold steering angle without steer in. BUT how big is the lock hold steering is depending on amount of CS i believe.Did use 1.5 to current 1.8. 1.8 give me a satisfaction on the steering lock. Do correct me if i'm wrong due to this is based on what i'm facing at this moment.
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Sakura Zero S 50:50

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Re: Holding More Steering Angle

Postby mobills » Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:00 pm

Yeah ur right apique that also has a lot to do with angle but little things like toe out can help as well as ur suspension. For example less preload makes the backend sag so there for when weight is transfered it throws the backend fast. And viseversa, the more preload the more the a ams are pushing the tires into the ground which causes more friction=grip


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