TC-FD steering mods WIP

Post all of your steering modifications to get more angle and to fix ackerman on your chassis.
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TheSCOrpionKing
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TC-FD steering mods WIP

Postby TheSCOrpionKing » Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:37 pm

In an effort to improve the steering angle on my TC-FD I have made some small changes, and also have plans for future improvements.

First up, unmodified DRB knuckles and 44mm shafts. Inside tire reachs 45* with no chatter. Outside wheel needs improvement. After installation of new bridge, I will shave the C hub and kncukle for more angle.

Image

To improve outside wheel angle, I have asked my machinist friend to make me a wider "U" shaped aluminum bridge. This item has still no been delivered so I have fabricated a simple prototype bridge out of angle stock aluminum. Disregard the extra hole for the bellcrank. I was cross eyed when drilling the first hole *-|

Image

Dimensions for this rack are:
Bellcrank holes - approximately 11/16" or 17.5mm from center.
Turnbuckle holes - approximately 1.5" or 38.mm from center.

I have shaved down center section to allow for belt clearance. I will run spacers with captured ball end to move the turnbuckle forward to improve link geometry. Finding the right combonation should help to achieve near zereo ackerman.

I shall upload more pics once this protoype is installed.
Last edited by TheSCOrpionKing on Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: TC-FD steering mods WIP

Postby marin.f » Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:30 pm

Nice mod! :)

Need more pics ;)

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Re: TC-FD steering mods WIP

Postby tokeyo83 » Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:16 pm

Nice, made one like for a friend not too long ago :up:
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Re: TC-FD steering mods WIP

Postby TheSCOrpionKing » Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:37 pm

Here are some pics of the angle aluminum prototype. Unfortunately it cannot be used as there are some issues that cannot be ovecome without re-making the bridge. It does however prove my theory on achieving zero ackerman and increased steering angle, and the machied bridge that my friend is making for me is based off the geometry of this ghetto fabrication. This piece rubs the suspension block at neutral position, and the tunbuckle nut contacts the suspension arm at full lock.

I had to shave the bridge to clear the belt tensioner when at full lock.
Image

Neutral
Image

Full left
Image

Full right
Image

Notice that near zero ackerman is achieved. If you look closely, you will notice that the bridge is not parallel to the suspsion block as it should be (when at full lock) I believe this is where my slight ackerman differences come from. When I mis-drilled my bellcrank holes, they no longer centered the bellcranks properly and the sweep motion was thrown off.

This is a pic of a scrap prototype for the machined piece. This one is incorrectly drilled and is nusable.
Image

Thie finished machined piece should arrive by weeks end. The machined bridge should easily clear the suspension block & belt tensioner, and since vertical ballstuds will be used, the turnbuckle should also clear the suspension arm.

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Re: TC-FD steering mods WIP

Postby marin.f » Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:03 am

Looks very good! :D

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Re: TC-FD steering mods WIP

Postby Pabloos » Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:06 pm

Nice job! :up: I have also picked up TC-FD and now I'm planing to make some mods for steering. Probably I will try to fit in a steering bridge from R2, but it needs a some mods too, because the holes for bearings are further from center than in stock one...

Are you using only knuckles from DRB or C hubs are also Yokomo? :)

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Re: TC-FD steering mods WIP

Postby TheSCOrpionKing » Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:38 pm

marin.f wrote:Looks very good! :D


Thanks man. it's getting there.

Pabloos wrote:Nice job! :up: I have also picked up TC-FD and now I'm planing to make some mods for steering. Probably I will try to fit in a steering bridge from R2, but it needs a some mods too, because the holes for bearings are further from center than in stock one...

Are you using only knuckles from DRB or C hubs are also Yokomo? :)


R2 CF bridge can work, but you just need to be sure to drill those bellcrank holes dead nuts centered, and run no bearings as the bridge is not thick enough to accept them. Also, the "horns" of the R2 bridge are a bit short IMHO so unless you run knuckles with longer arms, your link geometry will always be a bit poor.

I am only running DRB knuckles at the moment. I have some Yokomo 7* C's coming in though :up:

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Re: TC-FD steering mods WIP

Postby marshun » Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:55 pm

looks good.

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Re: TC-FD steering mods WIP

Postby TheSCOrpionKing » Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:40 am

OH. I thought that I should mention, that 44mm DRB shafts were used. OverDose 44mm shafts will work as well. I had another brand of shaft (brand I cannot remember) that easily has about 5* + more steering angle, but they are 46mm and almost bottom out in the one way drive cup. If I run more camber, the drive pin will surely bottom out and cause severe binding during suspension movement.

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Ta-da!

Postby TheSCOrpionKing » Sat Jan 07, 2012 7:05 pm

Final machined steering bridge arrived today :D

Image

I had to shorten the rod ends & 3mm setscrew I used for the turnbuckle. But all that was worth it because I now have pretty much zero ackerman. I have 45* of steering. I need to shave the drb knuckles and the C hubs a bit and 50* should be easily attainable.

Neutral:

Image

Full left:

Image

Full right:

Image

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Re: TC-FD steering mods WIP

Postby marshun » Sat Jan 07, 2012 9:41 pm

damn thats nice. makes me wanna re-do my pro-d's steering. :)

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Re: TC-FD steering mods WIP

Postby stuffcc » Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:22 am

Nice one !
But, it's me or there is reverse ackerman ?
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Re: TC-FD steering mods WIP

Postby marshun » Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:28 am

i think its because he didnt mod the c hubs yet. :)

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Re: TC-FD steering mods WIP

Postby Pabloos » Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:23 am

That looks very good. :up: Could you PM me the dimensions of this steering bridge and positions of the holes? I would be very grateful. :)

Today I ordered some parts for CS, a shorter front belt, DRB knuckles and 36t rear puley. Mine TC-FD will be 1.99 CS (39/12 36/22)

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Re: TC-FD steering mods WIP

Postby Calzone » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:13 am

stuffcc wrote:Nice one !
But, it's me or there is reverse ackerman ?

Looks like it indeed, but it could also be because of the pics taken from the back. It's better to look from the front if you want to check ackerman. And even if he really has it he could remove it easily by placing the turnbuckles in the other holes in the steeringbridge :)

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Re: TC-FD steering mods WIP

Postby TheSCOrpionKing » Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:06 pm

Thanks for all the comments guys.

I am at 2.0 CS with some yokomo parts sourced through Katsumi. The same setup as the TC-FD RB 2.0 thread.

There was very slight reverse ackerman, but those pics were just to post the mod since peoplehave been waiting to see it. I have not installed the shaved 7* yokomo C hubs because I shaved them, but not quite enough.

Using the rear set of holes however, did correct the slight reverse ackerman. I still need to fine tune my link lentghs and it is not the final setup as I still need to install the 7* C hubs (currently running stock 4*).

Here are the pics with the rera link holes used.

Full left (rear hole):

Image

Full right (rear hole):

Image

Oh and Pabloos. You got PM :up:

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Re: TC-FD steering mods WIP

Postby marin.f » Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:20 pm

This is amazing! Can you also PM me the dimensions? :)

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Re: TC-FD steering mods WIP

Postby TheSCOrpionKing » Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:56 am

My machinist will be cutting about 4-6 of these brdiges out of Carbon Fiber with a few small revisions. Please PM if you are interested in getting one :up:

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Re: TC-FD steering mods WIP

Postby Murdock » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:46 pm

How thick will the CF be? 3mm 3.5mm?
MST - MS-01D Pro - Build thread click HERE
Tamiya - TA05VDF - Build thread click HERE
HB/HPI - TC-FD - Build thread click HERE
Yokomo - SSG DRB - Build thread click HERE
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Re: TC-FD steering mods WIP

Postby TheSCOrpionKing » Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:42 pm

Murdock wrote:How thick will the CF be? 3mm 3.5mm?


It will be 1/8" thick or 3.175mm.

This is the thickest we can use as the bridge will have to mount on the top side of the bellcrank (because the arms will contact the suspension arm if mounted like stock) and if it were thicker, it'd surely contact the drive belt. I am using a 40t front pulley and a stock center puller. I have my belt tensioner at max height and it clears fine even under ful throttle/belt expansion).

I am revising the design a little to provide more belt clearance to accomodate the various pulley/belt combos people are running :up:

It will also have a bit more material around the bellcrank holes to allow the end user to drill them out slightly to allow the use of the top hat bushing (the ones used in the C hub.knuckle kingpin) to prevent wear of the Cf on the hardware. The top hat bushing will have to be grinded down a little (about 2.4mm IIRC) to remove the vertical slop. Stock bearigs cannot be reused as the above the bellcrank location. combined with the height of the bearing flange, will cause too many clearnce issues.

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Re: TC-FD steering mods WIP

Postby Murdock » Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:34 pm

I'm down sign me up! :)
MST - MS-01D Pro - Build thread click HERE
Tamiya - TA05VDF - Build thread click HERE
HB/HPI - TC-FD - Build thread click HERE
Yokomo - SSG DRB - Build thread click HERE
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Re: TC-FD steering mods WIP

Postby TheSCOrpionKing » Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:53 pm

6 of about 8-9 of the CF steering bridges are spoken for. PM if you are interested in getting one of the few that are remaining.

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Re: TC-FD steering mods WIP

Postby marshun » Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:15 pm

pics of the cf bridges?

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Re: TC-FD steering mods WIP

Postby TheSCOrpionKing » Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:02 am

marshun wrote:pics of the cf bridges?


They are hopefully getting cut this weekend, but here's a rendering of what they are gonna look like. They only have the rear turnbuckle holes (as those provided the best geometry) and has been clearanced in the center to provide more belt clearance.

Image

The bell crank holes will be drilled for 3mm hardware, but has additional material around the holes so that they can be drilled out to accept the steering block (top hat) bushings. Use of the bushings will prevent wear of the CF. You can use either HPI/HB p/n 75123 or Axial Racing p/n AX 30450. You will need to grind them down to reduce vertical slop, and then run a washer on the top so the screws can be tight, but the bridge can rotate freely.

Also, you will want to run some spacers (as pictured) to raise the turnbuckle off the bridge so that the turnbuckle is level with the suspension arm. This will eliminate any bump steer.

Image

If you use the recommended DRB knuckles, a long 3mm x 20mm setscrew (such as Axial Racing p/n AXA187) will replace the turnbuckle. You may need to shorten them a little depending on what rod end/ball cup that you use. You could just cut the head off a 3mm x 20mm cap screw if you don't want to buy the setscrew.

Besides the DRB knuckles, I am recommending use of either 44mm DRB cvd's or Overdose 44mm wide angle cvd's.

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Re: TC-FD steering mods WIP

Postby TheSCOrpionKing » Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:09 am

Here's a screen shot of the projected "cut.". Expecting to cut on. Monday :up:

Image


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