Steering Chatter HELP

Post all of your steering modifications to get more angle and to fix ackerman on your chassis.
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DK2B
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Steering Chatter HELP

Postby DK2B » Sun Jun 24, 2012 7:08 pm

Hey Guys,
would anyone like to have a shot at trying to figure out what may be causing my chatter??

I have -5 Camber and 1 deg Toe Out.

I have fitted the TS Type 2 Bell Cranks and the TS High Angle CVDs.

This test was done at very low revs and is the same on both sides. It is also the same whether load is applied or not.

ANY IDEAS Anyone?? :cry: :cry:

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Re: Steering Chatter HELP

Postby valve_timing » Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:14 pm

what cvds are you using bro

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Re: Steering Chatter HELP

Postby DK2B » Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:48 pm

I got a brand new set of the TS High Angle CVDs :)

For those that are new to the hobby or not sure what the TS stands for, then I will say that it stands for 'Team Suzuki' :) :up:
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Re: Steering Chatter HELP

Postby Dr.Fate » Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:27 pm

Have you lubed them? Also From what I see, IMO your servo arm looks a lil' loose. I've had a yokomo before and there pretty solid, make sure you did not screw the kingpin too hard, I had that problem once.

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Re: Steering Chatter HELP

Postby DK2B » Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:37 pm

I will try lubing them up a little more and see if that helps.

Servo Arms?? What do you mean by Servo Arms?? Sorry, just that everyone has different terms for things and I'm not familiar with Servo Arms *-|
Servo Mounts are tight, but the servo horn was a fraction loose, not bad though.

As for King Pins, well my chassis doesn't have them. My chassis has the Deleted 'C Hubs', that's how the DP Type C were produced :up:
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Re: Steering Chatter HELP

Postby bajaboy5b » Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:37 am

Just too much camber.

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Re: Steering Chatter HELP

Postby DK2B » Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:57 am

If -5 Camber is too much camber, then these cars are crock!!

I was running the same camber with my Type B before I did the steering mod on it and it was only because the steering mod on that chassis allowed for too much angle, that that chassis developed the chatter.

I personally don't agree that -5 Camber is too much camber. These CVDs are High Angle CVDs and should be able to cope with a high degree of camber anyway LOL :up:

According to my Camber Gauge, this is -5 Camber :mrgreen:

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This is my current Steering Angle:

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Re: Steering Chatter HELP

Postby marshun » Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:37 am

the camber doesnt really affect my yokomo drift package either.i know im way over 10 degrees as well.

ball cups are one thing that get worn and need to be replaced, centering the cvd joint is also a good thing to do. (helps the cvd last, what seems, a lot longer) also shimming the wheel hub to be semi snug also helps.

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Re: Steering Chatter HELP

Postby DK2B » Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:55 am

marshun wrote:the camber doesnt really affect my yokomo drift package either.i know im way over 10 degrees as well.

ball cups are one thing that get worn and need to be replaced, centering the cvd joint is also a good thing to do. (helps the cvd last, what seems, a lot longer) also shimming the wheel hub to be semi snug also helps.


Thanks for the advice marshun :up: :mrgreen:

I think that I will give my entire front end the once over, take it apart and make sure that everything is properly aligned and centred :mrgreen:

I will also make sure that the CVDs have enough grease in them and re-test again then.

Cheers for the help so far everyone ;) :mrgreen: :up:
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Re: Steering Chatter HELP

Postby FunkRenegade » Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:30 am

Run a front one way. Diff or solid axle always chatter more. Unloaded wheels will always chatter too. Once you put the car down, it'll go away.

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Re: Steering Chatter HELP

Postby DK2B » Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:44 am

Just for the record guys, I am running the Yokomo Aluminium Front Oneway up front, with the 'Active Hobby' Stage 2 CS Gears.
This is how I am able to achieve my 2.56 CS Ratio :up: :mrgreen:

I have tried it under load [driving conditions] and it still has the chatter.
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Re: Steering Chatter HELP

Postby TheSCOrpionKing » Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:03 pm

Does both the inside and outisde wheel chatter at the same time? Or is it Just the inside wheel? If it's just the inside wheel, it's most likely a maxed out cvd. If it's both, it could be many things

Chatter is typically due to dry (unlubed) cvd or a cvd that is maxed out.

My overdose cvd have sufficient travel, but when they atart to chatter, it is because they are dry

If you take the cvd out of the car, and spin it by hand (so that you can see the max usable angle, you will notice that the cvd normally turns sharper parallel to the slot for the cvd pin, and less when the pin is not. This causes most of the chatter. Try turning down your EPA slightly to see if it goes away. If it does, then your cvd's are maxed out.

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Re: Steering Chatter HELP

Postby DK2B » Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:44 pm

Hey SCOrpionKing :)
I have lubed up the CVDs, but I may need to pull the joints apart to really get the grease into them better :)
I didn't wanna pull them fully apart, cause I didn't wanna cause any possible issues with them *-| ;)

In regards to turning doen the EPA, EPA?? :? *-| Does the EPA refer to the Steering trim??
I think that I should be able to find that setting on my FS-GT3B :lol: :up:

I currently have the front stripped down, so I will pull the CVDs right down too and pack the grease between the joints and around the sleeve. I will then put it back together and try to re-align all the linkages etc :up: :mrgreen:

If it still does it then, then I will turn down the steering trim and see if that makes a difference.

If the CVDs are maxed out, then that by rights, tells me that I have possibly more than 55-59 degrees of steering angle. The TS High Angle CVDs come set stock at 55 degrees, but are capable of 58-59 degrees. So if they are maxed, then this would mean that I'd have to have close to, maybe more than 60 degree steering angle correct??

Are there any CVDs on the market that will allow me to obtain that steering angle and possibly a higher angle again?? *-| :mrgreen:

I'm still not ruling out the possibility that my Front CS gears aren't meshing properly, but fixing that can be a big pain in the a** too :lol: *-| :cry:
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Re: Steering Chatter HELP

Postby TheSCOrpionKing » Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:38 pm

DK2B wrote:Hey SCOrpionKing :)
I have lubed up the CVDs, but I may need to pull the joints apart to really get the grease into them better :)
I didn't wanna pull them fully apart, cause I didn't wanna cause any possible issues with them *-| ;)

In regards to turning doen the EPA, EPA?? :? *-| Does the EPA refer to the Steering trim??
I think that I should be able to find that setting on my FS-GT3B :lol: :up:

I currently have the front stripped down, so I will pull the CVDs right down too and pack the grease between the joints and around the sleeve. I will then put it back together and try to re-align all the linkages etc :up: :mrgreen:

If it still does it then, then I will turn down the steering trim and see if that makes a difference.

If the CVDs are maxed out, then that by rights, tells me that I have possibly more than 55-59 degrees of steering angle. The TS High Angle CVDs come set stock at 55 degrees, but are capable of 58-59 degrees. So if they are maxed, then this would mean that I'd have to have close to, maybe more than 60 degree steering angle correct??

Are there any CVDs on the market that will allow me to obtain that steering angle and possibly a higher angle again?? *-| :mrgreen:

I'm still not ruling out the possibility that my Front CS gears aren't meshing properly, but fixing that can be a big pain in the a** too :lol: *-| :cry:


Do those cvd's have a c lip to retain the center pin, or does it use a set screw? If it uses a setscrew, having it too tight will cause the pin to flex and cause chattering as well. also, if you have 5* of camber, and 55* degree of steering angle, tan the cvd is operating at 60* when at full lock as you need to account for the incuded angle of theadditional camber.

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Re: Steering Chatter HELP

Postby DK2B » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:21 pm

TheSCOrpionKing wrote:
Do those cvd's have a c lip to retain the center pin, or does it use a set screw? If it uses a setscrew, having it too tight will cause the pin to flex and cause chattering as well. also, if you have 5* of camber, and 55* degree of steering angle, tan the cvd is operating at 60* when at full lock as you need to account for the incuded angle of theadditional camber.


Nahhh, I'm pretty sure that these justhave the pin. I'm still yet to pull them apart, so they are only as they were since I purchased them. The only thing that I have done is used the very fine nozzle on my grease and sqeazed the grease down the sides of the shaft and then worked it around the joint.

What you have said about the camber and steering angle makes sense now :up: :mrgreen:
It is small things like that, that help me to be able to understand more about the setup process and I honestly didn't even think of that :oops: :oops: In all my days of Rally / 1:1 Drifting, I should have darn well thought of that :lol: :oops:

I might end up having to lower the camber, in order to maintain my steering angle.
What do most guys do, to get around this issue?? I see many guys running a high steering angle and also a high camber, so how is it possible?? For what I am trying to achieve, would have a set of double joint CVDs been more beneficial perhaps??

Last I tested my chassis, I set the EPA to L50 / R50 and much of the chatter appeared to be gone. I did notice a small slip in the diff, when I was giving it small amounts of burst on the throttle, so it also appears that my Bevel needs a slight more shimming :)
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Re: Steering Chatter HELP

Postby multi-bash » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:25 pm

Sounds like the CVD is maxing out. May need to get in close, see what's rubbing, and apply a dremel. Did this on my Xray ECS shafts with amazing results... but definately grease them with some quality shaft grease. Dirty grease gives a similiar chatter (ask me how I know)
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Re: Steering Chatter HELP

Postby DK2B » Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:46 pm

I'm using the Tamiya 'MOLYBDENUM GREASE' :up:

Is that suffice for using in the CVDs or should I be using a different grease for those??

This is the stuff that I have been using:

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http://www.tamiyausa.com/product/item.php?product-id=87022
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Re: Steering Chatter HELP

Postby DK2B » Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:18 am

I went to the extreme today and tore my entire front end down.

I pulled the CVDs apart and packed them full of grease.

I decided to remove the front CS Gears and just run a standard 1.8 CS at the moment.

Put it all back together and NO CHATTER. :up: :mrgreen:

I will be going back to my idea of the 2.5 CS [2.58 instead of 2.56 now] once I am able to purchase the DL035 Front CS Gears.

My plastic front CS Gears are still in perfect condition, but I just can't be bothered with the shimming issue anymore.
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Re: Steering Chatter HELP

Postby Jerome5597 » Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:53 pm

Hi, I was goin thru the steering posts and saw you guys talking about chatter. I too have had this problem and have never gotten it fixed since I started RCing. I drive a TT01 with plastic eagle racing suspension with metal CVDs and diff cups. I get plenty of angle and a bit of ackerman as well which I don't mind for now. The trouble is when I try to throttle on full lock.

I have tried to grease the CVDs up, like you guys have suggested. I tried with AntiWear Grease from Tamiya and with other greases as well with no luck. I've also tried to stuff the aluminum diff cups with foam so the cvd is tight, and pushing outward towards the axel.
I've inspected everywhere on the CVDs for rubbing or interfering with no luck.... So for now, I've just limit my steering on the receiver becuz I can't do full lock in either direction. It just chatters.

Here's a video link - http://youtu.be/lqL4Mjo1UN8

Will a F.O.W. diff help (I just ordered 1 this wk)? Right now I have a stock front gear diff that isn't tight...

Any help is much appreciated.

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Re: Steering Chatter HELP

Postby valve_timing » Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:01 pm

I would get better quality cvds eagle makes some high angle cvds

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Re: Steering Chatter HELP

Postby Stalwart » Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:34 pm

FOW helps. Also, fix your ackermann

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Re: Steering Chatter HELP

Postby Jerome5597 » Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:56 am

the eagle racing suspension i bought, came with these high angle CVDs that say 44mm on the dogbone arms. I think those are the longest arms for these CVDs.

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Re: Steering Chatter HELP

Postby mobills » Fri Sep 27, 2013 2:38 am

I would buy some spec-r double joint Cvds I had a pair and they were great they are built for no dog bone chatter and high angle u should check out some videos on YouTube there awsom


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